Original audio.<\/a><\/p>\nCandice:
\nWelcome to The Prevention Podcast. I\u2019m your host, Candice Christiansen. Our goal at The Prevention Podcast is to talk about dicey, controversial issues related to preventing sexual abuse. Why? Because it needs to be said. Topics include the biology of pedophilia, risk need and responsivity priciples related to non-contact and contact sex offenders, researchers in the field of sex offender treatment, and more.<\/p>\n
Join us bi-weekly, and let\u2019s talk about it.<\/p>\n
Welcome to The Prevention Podcast. I\u2019m hour host, Candice Christiansen. You know, we have been recording and interviewing many anti-contact, non-offending pedophiles, as well as researchers, throughout this podcast. And, like I\u2019ve said before, I did not intend for us to continue interviewing this population. I thought we might interview four, maybe five, and then move on to a different topic. But as of today, we are now downloaded in forty-one countries. And so, this has completely gone viral, which tells me that the message is so needed. And I\u2019m speaking of the message. Today we have with us Jakob, who\u2019s using an alias. He\u2019s from Sweden. So I want to welcome you, Jakob.<\/p>\n
Jakob:
\nThank you.<\/p>\n
Candice:
\nAnd, Jakob, would you say that the words, \u201canti-contact, non-offending pedophile\u201d apply to you?<\/p>\n
Jakob:
\nYes, it applies to me because I have never hurt a child, and I have never intended to hurt a child, even though I\u2019m attracted to them. So\u2026<\/p>\n
Candice:
\nYeah. So, I appreciate you saying that. And today we\u2019re going to get to know you, so that the global community can get to know you. Because, as you\u2019ve probably been listening to as well, Jakob, my goal is to educate the global community, that just because someone has an attraction to a child, or an attraction period, doesn\u2019t automatically mean they\u2019re going to cause harm to somebody.<\/p>\n
Jakob:
\nYes, I mean, that\u2019s true. And in the beginning, when I realized my attraction, I thought a lot about that. But then after a while, I felt like it was even too banal for me to think about that. Because it was just something that was so easy for me not to do, and not to think about that I want to do, that it was not an interesting question for me, in my life.<\/p>\n
Candice:
\nWhen you say, so for you, do you feel like it has actually been easy for you to acknowledge, okay, so I have an attraction to children, and I\u2019m not going to do anything with it.<\/p>\n
Jakob:
\nWell, I will not say it was easy for me to acknowledge my attraction, because I am 24 now, and I was 22 when I acknowledged it to myself, and it was actually a really weird experience, because, this might sound weird, but there was this teacher at Oxford who once argued that it\u2019s not so much that you change your mind, as much as it is that your mind changes you. And that was really the experience I felt like, because I was just walking home from school, to my parents\u2019, and I didn\u2019t intend to think in my mind, but I did, that just accept to yourself, that you are a pedophile. And before that, I had never fantasized about kids. I had never looked at kids in a sexual way or anything, but I just had this thought in my mind, and it was like, a really scary experience. Then I just got home. I opened up my laptop, and I wrote down on the computer a sort of diary, you could say, that now, today, I just realized I\u2019m attracted to kids. And then, I don\u2019t know what happened, I just got really tired. And then I went to bed, actually.<\/p>\n
And I must have forgotten to close it down, because when I woke up, there was just like, my mother father, they were just like, they looked at me in a way they had never looked at me before. And my father was like, we have seen it. And at first I was like, confused because I had just woke up, so\u2026 And then they really confronted me about it, and at that time, I didn\u2019t really understand what it meant to myself. I just know that that was what I thought, and what I had written down on the computer. And them my father began to like, talk to me in a way he almost never talked to me before. And said like, you know, I cannot let this go, and I have to tell the authorities. And he just attacked me verbally. And I didn\u2019t really know what to say or do. But I just said to him, well, if you say this to anyone, I will kill myself. And it actually ended really bad. Me and my fatehr, we ended in a fight, but\u2026 So, that was the coming-out-to-myself experience. And looking back, of course, I could wish for myself a more easy coming out experience, you could say. But that was my experience, and just to end about how it\u2019s been with my parents, just to mention that I want to say that after some months, you know where me and my father and my mother, we talked a lot more about it, and they educated themselves about it. I helped them to educate themselves about it. And so, I just want to say that now everything is cool between us, and well, it\u2019s still something we don\u2019t really talk about, but it\u2019s not a problem in the family.<\/p>\n
Candice:
\nThank you for sharing that. I am so happy that you went into detaial about that, because I know that there are a lot of people listening that will will have similar situations or have had similar situations. And yeah, it makes sense that it would be shocking to your parents. And I\u2019m also happy that they\u2019ve come around to support you, would you say? Or is that too bold of a statement?<\/p>\n
Jakob:
\nWell, at the time, well, I was a very confused teenager, and I actually went from being straight in my own mind to being gay. And, you know, then being a pedophile, and then, oh before being a pedophile, being bisexual, and then being a pedophile. So, and that\u2019s a really confusing experience to change, to have this change of mind about who you are. But before they knew I was attracted to kids, they had a hard time accepting that I was gay. But then, when they found out that I was attracted to kids, it was almost like they were cooler with me being gay. But then they were bad about me being a pedophile. So I would say that, I mean, we could talk about stuff, and I mean, I feel like they accept it. I will say that.<\/p>\n
Candice:
\nYeah, and I guess that was what I was implying. And they may not support it. And I think that\u2019s such a loaded term, so I want to be mindful in the language I use. And, as their son, they accept you as perhaps you are today. It\u2019s not easy, perhaps, but what i hear you saying is they an accept you today.<\/p>\n
Jakob:
\nSort of. Because I don\u2019t feel like I\u2026 Let\u2019s say, I was feeling really bad about this, and needed someone to talk to. I wouldn\u2019t choose them if you know what I mean.<\/p>\n
Candice:
\nI do. I do. And if they knew, perhaps, that you were suicidal, or were going to harm yourself, would they show up to support you?<\/p>\n
Jakob:
\nYeah, of course they would. Yeah.<\/p>\n
Candice:
\nAnd the reason I say that, you know, I, we recently saw on Twitter, that a teenager had ended his life because he was a pedophile, and had no support. And so what I really want everyone listening to this podcast to now, is if you have an attraction, and you are suicidal, you\u2019re not alone, and there\u2019s hope. Because, I don\u2019t, like you said, Jakob, you told your parents, I\u2019ll kill myself. Like if you tell anyone, I\u2019ll kill myself. And were you serious?<\/p>\n
Jakob:
\nYeah. I will say that having these thoughts have given the last couple of years, you know, um, sort of, like, accepting this part of myself has been really difficult, and, you know, of course, I\u2019ve had to deal with a lot of social anxiety and depression because of this. And I just want to say that, you used the word shock, that your parents were shocked when they found out, and for myself it was also a shock, because as I say, you know, I hadn\u2019t before this consciously thought that this is who I am. So, it has been, what has been difficult for myself has been being comfortable with having thoughts that I was sort of born to have. And having an attraction I was born to have without feeling shame, without feeling anxiety, without feeling that I was supposed to feel anything else. That has been, that has been the obstacle.<\/p>\n
Candice:
\nWe see so many people that we treat at The Prevention Project that have minor attractions, specifically pedophilia, who have so much shame and depression, and also feel that, or have experienced that, shock that you just described. And so thank you for sharing that, because again, I really want those that are listening to this podcast to know that, you know, this is something that more people have, than I think our society realizes. And, like you said, you realize, well, I\u2019m born with this attraction. This is something that I feel like I was born with. I started noticing as a teenager, and then here I am, at 22, and I\u2019m having this coming-out process, and it creates this uprotting in my family, and even know I still struggle at times. And so, what would your advice be to those that are listening who haven\u2019t yet come out, or are in that process and are really struggling? What might you share with them, since you\u2019ve been there?<\/p>\n
Jakob:
\nWell, I think it\u2019s very interesting. When we post online, about people who just realized this attraction, and who say they feel really depressed about it, and then it\u2019s very interesting for me to read about it now, because now I\u2019m so relaxed about it, that, but like two years ago I wouldn\u2019t be able to see that, you know, I just have to plan this all, and then everything\u2019s better. But I just want to say that, you know, I\u2019m really surprised that I\u2019ve been able to, by being more comfortable about this aspect about myself, then I feel like it doesn\u2019t hurt me the same way it used to hurt. But I, it\u2019s not one of those things where I feel that time heals everything, because I just know know that people who are gay and other people like myself, that this process of, let\u2019s say, pretending you\u2019re normal or trying to change things that cannot be changed, like this can go on for many years, and people just run themselves through the wall. Like, even after I had that experience with my parents, you know, I would go on dates with men and women, thinking that I could somehow make it work. But what ended up happening, is, you know, I just ended up in the bathroom, and you know, I just cried. Because I feel like I\u2019m trying to make something work that, well, for me, just doesn\u2019t work.<\/p>\n
Candice:
\nTrying to be someone you\u2019re not.<\/p>\n
Jakob:
\nAnd trying to, you know, let\u2019s say, being in a relationship with an adult for me, having to show affection, that doesn\u2019t seem authentic, and doesn\u2019t seem honest. That\u2019s not to say that, you know, maybe at some point I could see myself having a life partner. But I just know from experience, that when I\u2019m in that situation, sometimes I just feel a liar and somehow, having to be able to at some point say to your partner, that you know, when I went into this, I knew from the start that authentic, warm, feeling of connection, I knew that I would never be able to have that for you. And that seems like a very evil thing to say and to do to another person. But then, on the other hand, I feel like, well, if you just treat your partner well and, you know, you show them affection, and the way you can, I feel like, well, then no one can really call me a liar.<\/p>\n
Candice:
\nDo you feel like, in terms of having a relationship with another adult, whether it\u2019s a male or a female, I don\u2019t know what you would be drawn to if that, like if you envision having a relationship with another adult, can you see yourself having a life partner perhaps, that supports you and accepts your attraction?<\/p>\n
Jakob:
\nWell, when I was younger, I felt like it was more easy, because, talking with a lot of gays, I know it was the same of them, because, you know, the horniness you experience as a teenager is a lot greater than your sexuality. So, that\u2019s why I think it took a lot of time for me to realize about my attraction because, when I was a teenager, you know, I just felt attracted to people who were, you know, my age, but I think the way I could make it work, it would have to be if I formed, somehow, an emotional connection and maybe it would be with another person who was like myself. And I could be honest from the start. Or you know, it was an asexual partner, so we would maybe feel the same way to each other, and we wouldn\u2019t have to feel like we would have to pretend how we, that we felt something that we didn\u2019t feel.<\/p>\n
Candice:
\nYeah, I like that. I mean, I like that, I think it\u2019s great how you just explained that, you know, having an emotional connection with an adult, where you can be honest right out of the gate, even if you choose to be asexual with that person, you can still have that partnership. And we will be interviewing a couple who met\u2026 the gentleman is an anti-contact pedophile, met his now wife, and they actually have a really good relationship. And so, we\u2019ve seen that, and we\u2019ve heard from other anti-contact pedophiles who are able to do that. And it sounds like that\u2019s something that, perhaps, if the timing and person was the right fit, that that would be possible for you as well.<\/p>\n
Jakob:
\nYeah.<\/p>\n
Candice:
\nOne of the things that I wanted to, we ask this question a lot. I\u2019m curious to get your thoughts on it, but we have seen, we believe that aspects of pedophilia are indeed sexual orientation. So we\u2019ve seen that where it is, like you\u2019ve said, there are biological underpinnings, there\u2019s research that\u2019s coming out and has come out in the last few years do show that, and we also believe that sometimes individuals will come to us, whether it\u2019s in treatment, or even share with us on the podcast that something indeed happened when they were a child, and they get stuck at that age. It\u2019s arrested development. And then they find as they get older, that without even being aware of that arrested development or having that stuck developmental period of time, that they end up being attracted to that specific age of the child. And so in treatment, when we begin to address what happened to them at that age, the attraction has changed for some individuals, where they\u2019ll say, I don\u2019t actually feel sexuall attracted any more, I find myself emotionally feeling attracted and connected. So I\u2019m curious as to your thoughts on that for you and your own experience.<\/p>\n
Jakob:
\nI want to say that, I don\u2019t want to call it sexual abuse, because, but I will just say that when I was a kid, um, when I was 18 I talked with this psychologist, and when I went to see her, I didn\u2019t intend what I was going to say, but, I, you know, I recently had, I was going through a really emotional period in my life, and you know, I had this sort of flashbacks occur in my mind, and I just went to see her, and then, as I said in the chat, I said I recently had some memories about my childhood, and then I began to cry. And she was like, what was that? You know, and I just, you know, I told her what happened, and what happened was, that, you know, when I was little, there was this woman who would bathe me, in the shower, and she didn\u2019t actually touch me, but I just remember thinking, please don\u2019t look at me like that. And then as a child, you feel so powerless. I just remember when it happened, that I would always feel very vulnerable. And I would always just think, you know, please don\u2019t do that. But again, I mean, she didn\u2019t touch me. She didn\u2019t abuse me. I don\u2019t want to go into the details. And also, I think this experience actually it just made it easier for me to be anti-contact, because something so relatively little, has hurt me so much. So I think that\u2019s why, you know, us pedophiles, the ones who are aware, who know we have to be careful, it\u2019s a very good thing that we are aware of ourselves.<\/p>\n
And I don\u2019t think this experience with the woman, how hurtful it has been, has contributed to my development. It\u2019s very clear. Every specialist, scientist on the subject, says that the brain differences in pedophiles, actually think that they can occur over a lifetime. So I mean, the data is already out. I mean, it\u2019s an orientation that has been created before you are even born. That\u2019s my opinion. I think it\u2019s very interesting that there was this study some time ago, that that people who were pedophiles, they didn\u2019t want to say yes in a lie detector, most of them, when they were asked if they were abused. And I think that a lot of them, probably, were abused, and you know, a lot of abuse happens by people in your family. So, you know, it does make sense that, you know, if it is geneticly passed on, then it makes a lot of sense that, you know, if it\u2019s people who share your genes who abuse you, it makes a lot of sense that you also, not because they abused you, but because you share the genes of the people that abused you, that there seems to be this correlation between sexual abuse and people who were attracted to kids.<\/p>\n
Candice:
\nFascinating, Jakob. Thank you for sharing that. My hope is that in the next decade or less, and by all means 20 years, that we will have a lot of research that helps us understand more about pedophilia and attraction to children, and that the global community will not blindly throw out the label and misconceptions of pedophiles automatically being child molesters or sex offenders and really have an understanding that this is an attraction, it\u2019s a sexual age orientation, and that there will be some more acceptance. And I know that there are people out there that might think I\u2019m crazy for doing these podcasts. And I really feel like you and others deserve to have a voice. Because what you\u2019re saying makes a lot of sense, to me at least, you know, being someone that is a survivor of horrific sexual abuse as a child. And you can relate, in that there was this way that this caretaker was looking at you, that left you feeling afraid, and left you feeling shame, that stayed with you. You know, we do also know that fear and arousal do get fused in the brain. That doesn\u2019t automatically obviously mean that everyone that, you know, feels fear and is aroused, is going to end up a pedophile. However, it\u2019s good for us to know that, in terms of our arousal templates. So yeah, just, I love this rich conversation, and I appreciate you sharing that.<\/p>\n
Jakob:
\nYeah.<\/p>\n
Candice:
\nAs we start to wrap up our conversation, is there anything else that you want the global community to know about anti-contact pedophilia, about you, this is your time that I want the global community to hear your voice. So, anything else?<\/p>\n
Jakob:
\nI feel like the last couple of years for myself, my life, has really been about, you know, so, knowing that you will never experience, you know, your true sexual attraction, having a life where that can never happen, and you don\u2019t want it to happen. So, how do you find meaning without that? Well, you can still have love for your work. You can have love for your friends and so, you know, I just realized now that, you know, even though, you know, to some extent your life is limited, because of this, you know, also how honest you can be about who you are, because of society. You know that htere is so much of life still to be lived, you just have to find what you really want in life, and what you want out of it.<\/p>\n
Candice:
\nWell, and I think along those lines, thank you for saying that, we really have a good, global network now of projects, that are out there and available. I know our prevention project here in Utah, there\u2019s Dunkelfeld, there\u2019s Before You Act in Maryland, there\u2019s, and Before You Act, you know, I mean that is a great organization that\u2019s misnamed, and I say that because the folks that actually work there will say gosh, you know, we\u2019re really doing mental wellness with the MAPs population. \u201cBefore You Act\u201d may sound like we\u2019re trying to prevent the inevitable. So I really appreciate their stance. While We\u2019re called The Prevetion Project, that\u2019s because we\u2019re actually an umbrella. We have an umbrella of several programs. MAPs is one where we wellness support to, and so I want the global community to hear that, that we have a lot of good support out there for, you know, young men, young women, millenials, people of all ages that come out and say I\u2019ve got this attraction, and I don\u2019t want to do anything to a child, I don\u2019t want to harm anyone, but I have a ton of shame about this, and I feel depressed, I\u2019m suicidal, and I want some support. And so, we\u2019re here. And yeah, and I love how your theme today has been one of acceptance. You know, that\u2019s the beginning point for choosing to have the life that you want to live, it\u2019s by acceptance, acceptance of yourself.<\/p>\n
Jakob:
\nYeah, for sure.<\/p>\n
Candice:
\nSo Jakob, thank you so much for taking time to talk with me today. I really really appreciate our time.<\/p>\n
Jakob:
\nYeah. Yeah, thank you.<\/p>\n
Candice:
\nThank you! All right, listeners, thank you so much for listening to Jakob today, and until next time, let\u2019s continue to talk about it.<\/p>\n
The Prevention Podcast is looking to interview individuals who are anti-contact, non-offending pedophiles on the autism spectrum. We\u2019re also looking to interview anti-contact, non-offending pedophiles who are married or in a committed relationship. We would love to interview you and your spouse. Go to www.thepreventionproject.org<\/a> and email me if you\u2019re interested and these apply to you. Thanks.<\/p>\nThank you for listening to this week\u2019s podcast. Please visit thepreventionproject.org to learn more about our project and programs. Please remember to subscribe to our podcast at thepreventionpodcast.com or iTunes. See you next time!<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"
*Note* This podcast was transcribed by Robert West. Original audio. Candice: Welcome to The Prevention Podcast. I\u2019m your host, Candice Christiansen. Our goal at The Prevention Podcast is to talk about dicey, controversial issues related to preventing sexual abuse. Why? Because it needs to be said. Topics include the biology of pedophilia, risk need and…<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":516,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":[],"categories":[4,6],"tags":[],"yoast_head":"\n
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